Baumblog EST 1968 - A blog for the Baumbachs who originated in Syracuse, NY

Yep, this idea holds far more promise, and I think it makes the most sense of any electric car project I've seen to date.

Geoff said about 19 hours later

Well, if the Volt does ever come out, it's at least somewhat viable in the next year or two...this technology is decades away. Our darn city can't even repair potholes that have plagued our downtown streets for years.
GJ said about 19 hours later

How exactly is it decades away, just because Rochester doesn't want to pay for repairing their own streets again?
GJ said about 19 hours later

Oh, and how is the Volt viable? I'm still waiting to see a test mule that uses the generator, or a longer term environmental test of the battery (low temp operation and charge retention over time). There's a reason the ship date keeps moving out--actually, several of them.
Geoff said about 21 hours later

Ugh, because there are working prototypes and don't require a global infrastructure (or at least North American) change. Like I said, in year or two, you will see "volt like" vehicles. Much sooner than the concept presented above...especially if gas climbs back up. I'm sure it's on hold in part because gas is $2 cheaper than last year and for technical reasons of course.

Where the economy is now, I don't see a complete overhaul of our road infrastructure anytime soon. It may start in a decade or so in a small test region, but for the average American to be driving a car that runs off magnetic fields emitted from our roadways...I'm sorry but that isn't happening anytime soon. My bet is on advancements to batteries to make them smaller and more cost effective. My guess in 5-7 years you'll have cars running completely on batteries with no need for gas that will go very long distances. I'm sure you'll start seeing rapid charging stations at gas stations. That's my bet anyway.

GJ said about 22 hours later

Like I said: there are no working prototypes of the Volt. There is a test mule with a battery pack and electric motors--something GM did with the EV1, so they get no points for new development with this mule. Where is the prototype with the generator and fuel tank? That's the one that will be most similar to the proposed final product. It's yet to be shown to the public--for a car that has seen its delivery date pushed back several times now.

You think the Volt is on hold due to gas prices? Seriously? Try this one on size--they're still trying to acquire a Li battery pack that can last 10 years / 150,000 miles without appreciable degradation in charge retention during that span, and oh yes, also work reasonably well in the cold North American climate year-round.

Add the fact that the generator hasn't shown up in the test mules, and you have to think they're having other troubles with that setup that just isn't public knowledge yet. I don't see any reason why this hasn't shown up yet, but maybe Steve can come up with a good reason why they wouldn't have done this yet.

You can bet on batteries all you want, but a road mounted mag system is far more efficient than any battery system. Why do you think we have wiring strung to practically every house in the US, rather than use a battery system? Think efficiency might have something to do with it?

The technology to get cars running on this mag line is proven. All they have to solve is deployment--which amounts to coming up with a cost effective installation that doesn't require a huge capital investment, and also figure out who's going to own that system and collect fees. Unlike power lines, most roads in the US are owned by a government agency, so they might have to lease out space to run power lines in the roads like they do with national parks and above ground power lines today.

Best of all, these roads can accept both electric and gas vehicles, but there will need to be a significant percentage of electric vehicles to justify the ongoing maintenance. Additionally, these kind of electric cars would be cheap--no expensive battery to buy and maintain--and much less weight, too.

Tell me again how the battery in the car is the optimal solution, please. :)
Geoff said 1 day later

I didn't say optimal...practical :)

We already have the technology to do it...I'd like to see this magnetic idea in motion with full scale (not 1/28th) and then maybe we can consider it. At this point, they have some catching up to do before you can even consider it viable in the next decade or two.

This looks like the Volt to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYesLRsQPkk

And appears to be going on sale next year...sounds viable to me:

http://www.dailytech.com/Michigan+US+Look+to+Reestablish+Auto+Leadership+With+Green+Cars/article16489.htm

http://gm-volt.com/2009/10/13/clarification-gms-chevy-volt-build-schedule-for-2010/
GJ said 1 day later

First video is one year old. Nice pretty package. They never popped the hood, nor did they ever get out of electric mode. Want to know why? It has no gas tank and no generator. That's not a Volt, funny guy, even if it's dressed up like one.

Your second item is a "news" article that has no real data on the release date or manufacturing status of the Volt. So how is that relevant to the discussion?

Practical? So, was it practical to wire the USA for electric power? If battery technology is so good, why aren't we replacing those high maintenance (and outage susceptible) lines with batteries?

What exactly is there to scale up that might not work? Electromagnetism isn't a new concept, and I've seen this demonstrated on full scale vehicles on a closed circuit. This isn't so much a proof of concept at this point, it's more about making it work more optimally in an everyday environment.

Meanwhile, the huddled masses still wait for your proof the the Volt is more practical, and also closer to reality. :)

Oh, wait, you added a third item from that wonderful repository of gm-volt.com. :) What does it say? Oh yes, that they are building more prototypes. Of what, we're not sure--more battery-only mules? Or will these have a generator now, too? That'd be cool--but why aren't they saying so? :)
GJ said 1 day later

"We already have the technology to do it...I'd like to see this magnetic idea in motion with full scale (not 1/28th) and then maybe we can consider it. At this point, they have some catching up to do before you can even consider it viable in the next decade or two."

I like your pun--magnetic idea in motion. :) The rest of this sentence isn't grounded in reality. The relationship between electricity and magnetism is well known, and it is core to our current power generation infrastructure. Have an AC/DC adapter? That's doing the same kind of power transfer over magnetism. So, this isn't a shot in the dark--more like, a new way of implementing this concept.

As for slapping this into all roads, you don't need to go with that approach. Try this one:

Slap a battery in the car--take the Volt, for example, in its current form, sans generator. Now, add in the charging hardware in the car, and energize just the interstates. For folks that use the interstates pretty regularly, presto, that's all the charging they need. Now, for someone like Darcy, that's not going to work, so you still have the ability to charge at home as need be.

Eventually, as more and more e-cars show up, more and more of the roadway can be electrified. It's entirely possible that this entire conversion could be COMPLETE inside 20 years.
Steve said 1 day later

While I do believe that GM has Volts running around, I honestly have not seen any prototypes on the roads yet, and I typically do see prototypes of all locally designed vehicles on the road at some point. That said, I'm sure GM doesn't want the cars driven on public roads much yet.

Chrysler has several plug in hybrid mules up and running. You may not have heard of Chrysler's ENVI project. Well, it's real. I've seen them in real life, in fact they've had several of them at the proving grounds undergoing testing. We're currently working on getting two of them into production. One has been publically announced - it's a plug in hybrid minivan, being developed first for use by the US postal service - a use that is perfect for plug in hybrids.

Yes, battery technology is an issue. But GJ, you sound just like me when the Toyota Prius came out. Everybody was so worried about battery life in the Prius and the cost of replacements. The public was so worried, that Toyota stepped up and offered a 5 year gauranty on battery packs. Well, guess what? They've had very little warranty on the battery packs, and are actually getting much more life out of them than even Toyota expected. No, they are not lithium ion, but none the less - they perform much better than the skeptics thought they would.

The magnetic system would be awesome, especially if it allowed the amount of batteries required in the vehicle to be decreased. The US government would be smart to get moving on this, it would be a great way to help reinvigorate the economy (jobs) while improving environmental concerns.
Steve said 1 day later

Here you go, Volts on the street.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=116542&id=106095626008&ref=share
Steve said 1 day later

And look, they use gas too!!!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=2&aid=116542&id=106095626008#/photo.php?pid=2832302&id=106095626008
GJ said 1 day later

The difference between the Prius and Volt batteries is significant. Li batteries are far more dense and way better suited to high power applications, but they come at a cost--you need to treat them well for them to work, and treat them bad enough and they blow up. The fact that you haven't seen any prototypes says more to me that the car isn't ready rather than simple secrecy. GM's dumb pr game has thrown any security value out the window, imho.

The concern about old gas in the Volt is also significant. I really don't know how they're going to beat that one--gas breaks down over time, and if gas is sitting in a volt over the course of months without being replenished, I'm not sure what they can do besides recommending customers put gas preservative in the tank. That could be a gigantic warranty issue for GM, at the least.

Can't check facebook from work--I'll check it out later. Please tell me they did more than show off the creature comforts of the vehicle, or talk to excited future customers! :)
Geoff said 1 day later

Like I said, I want to see magneto in motion with a real vehicle on a real road. At that point, we can talk practicality. At this point, there are already batteries in vehicles running. Whether the Volt is ready or not, I said it will be out in 1-2 years...and from what I've read and see, seems like a decent probability it will be out by then.

As far as practicality...I see manufacturing vehicles with battery technology similar to the volt in the future far more practical. If this Magnetic idea is so practical, why is this the first I've heard of it? It's an idea, a great idea, and perhaps a technology we can put to use "decades" away...2020 would classify as decades since that is 11 years :)

In the short term though, as in 10 years or less, I see batteries being predominant. They seem to work well for powering our little electronics...I'm sure advances will make it easier to use for big electronics.

Oh, and if you want the "Optimal solution", a car that runs on solar power would be optimal...but not practical.
GJ said 1 day later

Read this and learn, dude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer

Geoff said 2 days later

will do...