And those in the auto industry won't care for this one, either. Lest you think I'm piling on, I'm just about out of a job, too. Yay, go holiday season!
Geoff said about 10 hours later
I agree with these points. However, seeing that we bailed out some of these banks, I honestly don't see how the government won't bail out GM. The public's opinion of the government bailing out "white collar" jobs and letting the hard working "blue collar" jobs collapse would probably cause a few riots. I think we already shot ourselves in the foot, a couple times.
If we were to let the big three collapse, the road would be filled with Camrys and Accords...can we say BORING!
GJ said about 17 hours later
1) the road is already full of them, or have you not been paying attention? :)
2) GM has more than blue collar jobs. Dad's job wasn't blue collar, now was it?
3) Banks don't have blue collar jobs, but they are the lifeblood of the economy. No banks, we go back to barter. Period.
Everybody is selling the theory that if there is no bailout, the big 3 are toast. Not so--if all three go the bankruptcy route, it's likely two will emerge, much smaller, leaner, and better able to compete with Toyota, who is having very serious financial issues of their own right now. However, a LOT of people will lose their jobs...but you know what--these bailouts cost money. That's more taxes for me and you, and every other business out there. Raise taxes, and more jobs are lost. Some tradeoff, eh? It might be...if there was something done to fix the automakers. Giving them money to survive until the economy gets better will not correct their long-term issues. A healthy company doesn't go belly up during tight economic times, but sickly companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler do.
There is no easy answer...but throwing money at them with no required changes in operation and personnel would be the worst thing we can do--even worse than letting them die.
Geoff said 1 day later
I'm just saying that is how it will be perceived by most Americans...remember...most Americans are idiots :)
As for Camrys and Accords...the awesomeness of my G8 simply overwhelms these lackluster cars. Now imagine if GM, Ford, and Chrysler ceased to exist. What are all the mechanics going to do. They'll have no cars to fix!
GJ said 1 day later
I don't know, my mechanic works on a lot of Audis, Subarus, and Hondas. I'm one of his few GM customers.
GJ said 3 days later
How many GM executives does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
49
1 unscrew the old bulb.
Another to blame the UAW for screwing it in too tightly even though it was GM engineering that gave them the torque specs. Unfortunately, someone forgot to convert the specs to standard from metric since the lightbulb came from Opel… even though it was manufactured in Ohio, shipped to Germany, then shipped back in the trunk of a Saturn Astra.
A third to open a PO to Delphi for a taller ladder to put the new bulb in. The one used to remove the old bulb belonged to the Hummer division and had to be strapped on the roof of an H2 as a buyer incentive. Besides, installing new bulbs is the job of the warranty department and the old ladder belonged to marketing so they couldn’t use it anyway.
A fourth to realize that the bulb wasn’t actually burned out in the first place… the power was turned off because Accounts Payable was ordered to not pay the bills for 92 days in an effort to show more cash on hand at the end of the third quarter.
37 consultants to write “The Definitive Memorandum on the Exchange of Incandescent Lighting Materials” which pretty much regurgetated what everyone below an unclassified level already knew but leadership never bothered to ask about.
2 government relations employees to explain to Carl Levin that GM may not be able to turn the light back on without government help but that “we’re really on track to keep them after some short-term assistance.”
One CEO on the way to Bay Harbor in the corporate jet reading the report by the marketing VP about the successful bulb exchange.
Steve said 3 days later
someday I'll have time to respond to this joke of comments. If you only knew...
The big three are asking for a LOAN!! Not a freaking handout. Not a bailout. a LOAN! That pays 5-6% interest! The banks got free money, now we are just asking that some of that money be turned around and loaned to us. We pay back, plus interest, so the government makes money! The government (meaning you taxpayers) made over $300 million dollars back in the 80's when the gov't LOANED Chrysler money to stay afloat. And it was all paid back 7 years early!
More to come when I have time. Off to on of my last SCCA meetings, yippee!
GJ said 3 days later
Yeah, but if I was a bank I wouldn't give GM/Ford/Cerebus a loan at 5-6% API. Come on, any kind of loan to the automakers is a risky bet--methinks they should get the same kind of interest rates I saw on the first credit card I got after my filing the big B years ago.
However, I'd love to have a discussion that doesn't involve the same old crappy talking points. The gun-to-the-head approach GM is taking is pathetic--"if we go down, you ALL are going down!" and there has been absolutely no acceptance of responsibility for the dumb decisions they've made over the years. That's a big reason why they're getting very little support from folks in the non-auto industries and the government.
Geoff said 3 days later
It's funny how everyone calls this the "bailout" plan, but when it came to the banks, it was a "rescue plan." The banks were just as stupid with their money as GM, so if we bail them out, by principal, we must bail out the big three and everyone else who has a major impact on our economy. That, or we let them all fail and suck it up.
I've heard plenty people say that we had no choice but to bail out the banks, what would happen if we didn't? I'm just curious. I'm not saying I am for or against the "bailout" for the auto makers, but if we don't bail them out, they definitely won't be spending their money on new technologically advanced cars, they'll still be trying to figure out how in the hell just to stay alive...meanwhile Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai will be building flying DeLoreans and flux capacitors.
It basically comes down to this: Would the bailout give any of these American factions a chance at really competing or would it just prolong their inevitable demise? Many would say the later, I would actually like to hear from Steve who actually works for Chrysler :) He should know better than any of us I would think.
GJ said 4 days later
If the banks fail, the economy as we know it crumbles. However, like what I want to see from the automakers, I wanted the heads of the banks that took the money.
The domestic automakers need to make some serious changes. GM especially has far too many brands, vehicles, and dealers. It's unfortunate that it comes to this, but I think unless the domestics take some huge cuts, there won't be much in the way of loans coming beyond the initial 25M offering for "retooling."
I do find it interesting that the automakers say that they can't do the bankruptcy thing, as customers will no longer trust them enough to buy cars from them. Um, guys...sitting on the steps of the Capitol begging for a handout and claiming (correctly for GM) that they'll be out of business in 2-3 months without it is just as damaging to customer confidence, don't you think? You get the feeling that they're just not serious. I mean, they've run a huge PR campaign over this...but what REAL changes are they going to apply? Unfortunately, the banks beat them to the analysis-free bailout, so now as part of the plan to get their own "rescue" plan, they need to sell it to the people AND the government.
Given how many folks have lost their jobs over the last three decades and had to realign their lives and move on, I think they have a tough sell.
Steve said 4 days later
If you had a clue about the auto industry GJ, you'd know that the big three have been trying to close plants and dealers as fast as they can. You'd also know it's not easy to do.
